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Interpreting Carol Dweck's Motivation Questionairre

Last post 25/12/10 at 00:41 by weebecka, 363 replies
Post started by mature_maths_trainee on 12/12/10 at 11:59

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    Posted by: weebecka 20/12/2010 at 23:04
    Joined on 15/09/2010
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    Thanks for taking the time to write this Karvol.  

    Karvol:
    All this talk about students creating theorems for themselves and discovering mathematics is frankly a pipe dream. An unfortunate relic of some 70's ideal still holding sway in teacher training colleges. Even if you take the most elite mathematical hothouses the English public school system has to offer, the US advocates of the Harkness system, etc. etc. you still require a great deal of guidance from a teacher. 
     

    I'm not an idealist Karvol, I'm a pragamtist.

    Having witnessed some of the teachers who were nurtured in the environment of the 70's ideal and having used some of the methodologies they taught me, I know there are very powerful pedegogical tools there.

    Students creating theorems for themselves and discovering mathematics is not a pipe dream for me.  It's part of what I expect from my students.

    HOWEVER.

    This does not mean I compromise the disciplined teaching of curriculum and techniques.

     

    Now I know that's quite a claim to make because I fully understand the challenges of combining curriculum-orientated and process-orientated teaching.  We did have some schools here in Cumbria which were renouned for achieving this well but they were well resourced, had super-motivated staff and dedicated staff and existed in a pre-ofsted/nc era.

    Between 2000&2002 I was lucky enough to work on a British Council project which allowed a group of us to focus on understanding and predicting what the impact of broadband communication technology would be on teaching. 

    If you want to see some evidence of this, in 2003 Micromath asked for articles predicting the impact of ICT on maths teaching over the next 20 years.  My response is in the summer 2004 Micromath.

    It was very clear that communication technology had the potential to have a much bigger impact on maths teaching than stand alone computer technology ever did.

     

     

     

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    Posted by: Karvol 21/12/2010 at 00:17
    Joined on 30/06/2008
    Posts 1,389

    weebecka:

    Having witnessed some of the teachers who were nurtured in the environment of the 70's ideal and having used some of the methodologies they taught me, I know there are very powerful pedegogical tools there.

    Some examples then. What are they? You should be able to tell at least a few. Tell us some of the pedagogical gems that you remember from the 70's.

    weebecka:
    Students creating theorems for themselves and discovering mathematics is not a pipe dream for me.  It's part of what I expect from my students.

    That's interesting. You have barely taught a cohort, and done the odd lesson here and there in Jordan. Just where were these students?

    Unless of course we have vastly different requirements as to what consitutes discovering mathematics and creating theorems.

    The funny thing is that back in the late 90's I attended quite a few meetings discussing coursework and other aspects of GCSE and A Level syllabi.  Even the very best pieces of coursework that I saw didn't contain anything other than fairly trivial mathematics at best. If this was the very best that the exam boards had to offer, just what exactly were your students doing?

    Without being facetious, would you care to give some examples of what you deem "creating theorems and discovering mathematics"?

    weebecka:

    Between 2000&2002 I was lucky enough to work on a British Council project which allowed a group of us to focus on understanding and predicting what the impact of broadband communication technology would be on teaching. 

    If you want to see some evidence of this, in 2003 Micromath asked for articles predicting the impact of ICT on maths teaching over the next 20 years.  My response is in the summer 2004 Micromath.

    It was very clear that communication technology had the potential to have a much bigger impact on maths teaching than stand alone computer technology ever did.

     

     

    What does this have to do with the price of tea in Baghdad? You want me to see an article written in 2003 describing how mathematics teaching is going to develop with the impact of ICT and you expect it still to be relevant? What is the point of these paragraphs?

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    Posted by: weebecka 21/12/2010 at 09:40
    Joined on 15/09/2010
    Posts 823
     
    Karvol:
    What is the point of these paragraphs?

    There are two themes here - the teaching I have received, seen and been part of the culture of which has influenced me.

     The way in which I have used ICT to carefully and coherently integrate curriculum-led teaching and process-led teaching. 

    It's better if I take one at a time rather than both together as that will confuse things.

    Which would you prefer I take on first?

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    Posted by: Karvol 21/12/2010 at 10:04
    Joined on 30/06/2008
    Posts 1,389

     I'd prefer it if you gave examples of the 70's pedagogical gems and the non-teacher led and independently discovered thereoms and the mathematical insights made by your pupil.

     

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    Posted by: weebecka 21/12/2010 at 10:27
    Joined on 15/09/2010
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    Karvol:
    I'd prefer it if you gave examples of the 70's pedagogical gems and the non-teacher led and independently discovered thereoms and the mathematical insights made by your pupil.

    Okay, so in the 70s two interesting things happened for me.  The first was that my mother (previously a university lecturer who'd had a career break for four children) retrained as a primary school teacher.  Because of all the strikes my school was shut a lot when she did this so I went to her lectures with her.  Of course the educational psychology taught was a mess, but what it did do was it started her and me talking about everything.

    So my school introduced Scottish Maths (I've got the foundation stage book here beside me now), which was a very different scheme to what had come before in England.  From year 3 it was teach yourself. It worked brilliantly in my school because we were all literate and because the teachers kept some lessons each week for drill, so that wasn't lost.  

    The way Scottish Maths is written is contructivist in style so it, and the way it was introduced, was an interesting basis for discussion.  It certainly wasn't perfect, but it did have key benefits, the most obviously being that it took the cap of what students could achieve.  By the time I was in year 4 I was doing year 7 work.

    During the rest of my schooling I seemed to find myself on the Forrest Gump end of every random initiative & I just discussed it all with mum at this stage, trying to make sense of what was good and what was bad and why.  For example I went through the introduction of GCSE.  We had to do 6 projects, topics chosen by us.  Now this was a very powerful thing to do.  It challenged and stretched me as a mathematician in many unfamiliar and valuable ways.  But of course I was looking at the admin and logistics for my teachers and realising that the way the whole thing had been implemented was insane and unsustainable.  

    Meanwhile over in Cumbria, where I was to come to teach, a great deal was going on.  You had schools like Stainburn - really well respected for maths - running the 100% coursework GCSE. Then you had the likes of Wyndham, also very highly respected, teaching mixed ability up to year 9.  There were rural general schools and then there were schools like Ehenside, which developed vocational mathematics courses which they assessed themselves for their students .  

    All the teachers here were so deeply intelligent because they were used to developing, explaining and justifying their own curricula, modes of assessment and core purposes.  Many key characters came from here, for example Eric Love who went on to head up maths at the OU was head of maths at Wyndham. 

    These schools were not chaotic hippyfests Karvol.  They were very well organised, effective and highly respected school.

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    Posted by: weebecka 21/12/2010 at 10:29
    Joined on 15/09/2010
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     Sorry I haven't really done mathematical disocoveries by students yet.  Got to go for now.

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    Posted by: DM 21/12/2010 at 10:50
    Joined on 12/05/2003
    Posts 5,309

    weebecka:

     Sorry I haven't really done mathematical disocoveries by students yet.  Got to go for now.

    Do you need a few hours to make up some examples?

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    Posted by: Karvol 21/12/2010 at 11:04
    Joined on 30/06/2008
    Posts 1,389

     Let me get this straight - your idea of great 70's pedagogicalgems is...wait for it...

    Give the kid a book and let him or her get on with it?

    Er...is that it?

    Stainburn School:

    Attainment by the end of Key Stage 4 is broadly average and has improved significantly from a low point two years ago when many students underachieved.

    Learning and progress in lessons are satisfactory because teaching is not yet consistently good. Academic outcomes for sixth form students, who form a very small minority of the school's population, are inadequate. There is a rising trend in attainment and achievement but too many students underachieve.

     I couldn't find a report for Wyndham School which went on to special measures and closed down.

    The only report I found on Ehenside was from a newspaper which quoted and OFSTED report:

    The report states that the school has seen standards rise at Key Stage 3, but they remain significantly below the national average. It adds that GCSE standards remain low and that “reasons for under-perfomance are too readily attributed to pupils’ poor attitudes rather than to a careful consideration of the quality of teaching and its impact on pupils’ learning.”

    It also says that the school is letting down more able pupils by teaching everyone at the same level.

    This is your idea of highly respected for mathematics teaching? You are holding these places - which have been damned by Ofsted as being barely satisfactory and of failing their students - as exemplars of teaching?

    I am sorry weebecka, but you have quite clearly pointed out that your value systems of what constitutes good practice and mine are completely contradictory.

    Say what you like about Ofsted, but a damning report is still a damning report no matter what nuance you may put on it.

     

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    Posted by: Karvol 21/12/2010 at 11:13
    Joined on 30/06/2008
    Posts 1,389

    weebecka:

     Sorry I haven't really done mathematical disocoveries by students yet.  Got to go for now.

     

    You don't do yourself any favours do you?

    Have you actually taught before or is it all a fantasy? Every single point or anecdote you make is a lie or a deliberate obfuscation. 

    What is the real truth of the matter weebecka? Is this some sort of Walter Mitty type of life for you which is slowly unravelling?

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    Posted by: DM 21/12/2010 at 11:32
    Joined on 12/05/2003
    Posts 5,309

    Look, you simply don't understand the nature of genius Karvol.   Our weebs is so amazing that she can inspire two cohorts AT THE SAME TIME:

     

  • Subject Leader Mathematics

    Ehenside School

    January 2007 — August 2008 (1 year 8 months)

  •  

  • Teacher

    Southfield Technology College

    September 2006 — December 2007 (1 year 4 months)

     

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