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weebecka:

vehar:

'Now, we have the media model of lippy smartarsy interaction between teens and adults, the equality with which kids are treated by their parents, the confusion between healthy self-control and unhealthy repression, and the general erosion of respect for authority of any kind, set against the dogmatic, institutionalised horror of physical discipline - of anything that makes the child feel more than mildly inconvenienced for a short time - which means that teachers are always entirely dependent upon the inclination of the child on that day, at that time, for reasonable, civilised behaviour'

Just felt it needed repeating.... and repeating..... and repeating.....

 

Has anyone else worked with teachers who are expert at getting this respect an commitment from children despite these circumstances?  I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the only one who's worked with lots of teachers who can manage circumstances like these well, with little back-up (once they've settled in and assuming back-up would be there when they needed it).

I know ! You´re Stanley Baxter.

Sidney Poitier?

Lulu ?

Glenn Ford ? 

Mr Squelch ?

BigFrankEM:

weebecka:

BigFrankEM:

none of these difficult kids would dream of walking in front of a speeding bus because they know the consequences.

NO BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE WOULD GET HURT.....

Fatuous.

I couldn't figure out what this meant. If you step in front of a speeding bus it's unlikely that anyone else is going to get hurt, maybe whiplash for braking ?

But it appeared to suggest that 'difficult children don't walk in front of a speeding bus because other people would get hurt' which is bizarre.

I've worked with a lot of EBD children, but I can think of only a couple of self-harmers.

weebecka:

This is a point I know well airy, having taught extreme classes

Is this like the 'borderline C' group you described elsewhere ?

weebecka:

I watched all these seriously gifted teachers around me and tried to work out how they were teaching these children so well, which aspects of what they were doing I could adopt and which I couldn't and why.

I don't want anyone to think I'm lecturing them or offering perfect universal answers.  No-one knows better than me that I'm not.

In fact, you aren't offering any answers are you ? You aren't even offering any suggestions.

Your L-shaped resource, whatever its merits or demerits, isn't appropriate for 'extreme' classes. Actually I think your definition of 'extreme classes' is different to everyone else.

weebecka:

I do recognise that this may not be possible in this forum.   But I wanted to try.

And you seem so totally lacking in self awareness that you don't ever think it might be you.

MissedOpportunity:

Middlemarch:

So - what is 'dealt with appropriately'?

Exclusion? Restorative practice? Don't know really. It is a fair though. As long as something is done and it has an impact - that seems appropriate.

And what if the only things you are allowed to do - fixed-term exclusion, for example - have no definable impact on the child concerned?  In my experience, they don't have any impact other than to give a pupil who doesn't much like school a few days off.

I'm not expecting you to have an answert, by the way - merely pointing out that what a lot of people criticise school leaders for is 'not doing anything' when what they often mean is 'not doing anything that has any impact'.  That's because they can't do anything that has any impact.

weebecka:

these systems are sufficient for some students in some situations,

but that 

in other situations, although it is necessary that referral and punishment systems exist, they are not sufficient to improve the behaviour or the student?

Would that sum it up?

Absolutely the point.