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A child regularly swearing at a teacher - telephone the police?

Last post 24/12/10 at 11:21 by dinx67, 253 replies
Post started by MissedOpportunity on 13/12/10 at 19:16

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  • weebecka avatar
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    Posted by: weebecka 16/12/2010 at 14:05
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    Middlemarch:

    weebecka:

    these systems are sufficient for some students in some situations,

    but that 

    in other situations, although it is necessary that referral and punishment systems exist, they are not sufficient to improve the behaviour or the student?

    Would that sum it up?

     

    Absolutely the point.  

     

    Good.  So we need to talk about the children for whom this is not enough.

    Who are they?  What does it take to engage them in education?

  • vehar avatar
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    Posted by: vehar 16/12/2010 at 14:06
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    'I know ! You´re Stanley Baxter.

     Sidney Poitier?

    Lulu ?

    Glenn Ford?

    Mr Squelch ?'

    Michele Pfeiffer?  

  • autismuk avatar
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    Posted by: autismuk 16/12/2010 at 17:36
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    weebecka:

    Autismuk seems to think the answer is to give them all target grades of C then because they've got target grades of C they are no longer challenging.  (Both the students described in the thread had target grades of C - it didn't stop them assaulting staff). 

    Is Autismuk Chris Woodhead?

     

    AutismUk remembers you describing a group which OTOMH had 2 ASBOs and 1 with a conviction .... very challenging behaviour. You said they were borderline C for Mathematics.

    At least two people pointed out that 'very challenging groups' in schools tend not to be borderline C for Mathematics.

    It is a reasonable conclusion that your view of 'very challenging behaviour' is different to everyone else's.

  • autismuk avatar
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    Posted by: autismuk 16/12/2010 at 17:37
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    autismuk:
    It is a reasonable conclusion that your view of 'very challenging behaviour' is different to everyone else's.
     

    Your previous suggested solutions, your suggested activities also support this view.

  • Lilyofthefield avatar
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    Posted by: Lilyofthefield 16/12/2010 at 17:39
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    weebecka:

    Lilyofthefield:
     What did the "back-up" consist of, specifically?  What was provided that ensured that the pupils never repeated that behaviour?
     

    No golden bullet.  No insurance that there will be no more bad behaviour.

    Just the usual range of sactions.

     

    Did you notice "specifically"?  We have the usual range of sanctions at our school and they don't work. 

    So you're telling me that the usual range of sanctions, by which I presume you mean detention, understanding chats, seriously disappointed chats, phone calls home and fixed-term exclusions,worked in your school.  Why do you think they worked there but not here?

    Specifically.

  • bnm avatar
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    Posted by: bnm 16/12/2010 at 17:40
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    weebecka:

    Good.  So we need to talk about the children for whom this is not enough.

    Who are they?  What does it take to engage them in education?

    I have no answers and my experience is with primary children. However, the bulk of this group of children in my experience are those who are regularly abused at different levels and have not received quality consistent parenting from the time of their birth.

    What is needed is a much better resourced and effective social care service which can support vulnerable families at the early stages of a child's life.

    No legal sanction is ever going to work as it can never be as bad as the every day life the children experience.

    As children become teenagers we (rightly) expect them to take ever more responsibility for their own actions. At a primary level we try to teach this but alongside the enormous lack of practical, everyday love that they need. It is rarely enough to turn around a child's life chances.
  • Lilyofthefield avatar
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    Posted by: Lilyofthefield 16/12/2010 at 17:43
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     What is needed is a much better resourced and effective social care service which can support vulnerable families at the early stages of a child's life.

    Baby P came from a vulnerable family.  They seemed unkeen to seek or accept any kind of support that wasn't financial.

  • bnm avatar
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    Posted by: bnm 16/12/2010 at 17:49
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    Lilyofthefield:
    Baby P came from a vulnerable family.  They seemed unkeen to seek or accept any kind of support that wasn't financial.

     

    I don't disagree, lily. But if the social care service wasn't so overstretched I would hope (I am an optimist!) that vulnerable children would be seen more regularly and decisions made at case conference level made more quickly. I attend many and they do sometimes effective big positive changes. More often they don't, and occasionally children are placed with other family members or foster carers. I would like to see that process speeded up as the years it takes to make decisions at the moment often mean that much of a child's childhood is spent being neglected/abused.

    I have seen some dramatic positive changes in children both through families that do engage, and through children being removed to the care of a different adult.

    At the moment social workers are so over-stretched they never see their caseload children often enough and there is a huge heap of children who don't meet their current "criteria".

  • Lilyofthefield avatar
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    Posted by: Lilyofthefield 16/12/2010 at 17:58
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    My experience has been mainly with the ones who were removed from completely unsatisfactory parents far too late and then shoved from pillar to post through the care system and returned to the mother at her whim.  It has coloured my opinion.

    But I agree that it doesn't take Einstein levels of genius to foresee a disaster in the making.  If a closely-monitored chance has been given and wasted, the child should be removed early and permanently.
  • airy avatar
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    Posted by: airy 16/12/2010 at 18:00
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    weebecka:
    it made me very sharply aware of the things a teacher can do with severe behaviour issues which help. 
    For example..? Discussion is a two way process and, given your track record of using posters' responses for your own professional work, it wouldn't surprise me if you were collating answers for a soon to be published book on behaviour.
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