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A child regularly swearing at a teacher - telephone the police?

Last post 24/12/10 at 11:21 by dinx67, 253 replies
Post started by MissedOpportunity on 13/12/10 at 19:16

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  • lovelylouboutins avatar
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    Posted by: lovelylouboutins 15/12/2010 at 13:36
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    weebecka:
    such as learning be very careful of what you say to the police

     

    Why? I cannot see any reason whatsoever for this?
  • squashballs avatar
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    Posted by: squashballs 15/12/2010 at 13:40
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    Whatever happened to "sticks and stones"?
  • MeanAverageJoe avatar
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    Posted by: MeanAverageJoe 15/12/2010 at 14:19
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    squashballs:
    Whatever happened to "sticks and stones"?
     

    They got thrown at the police line.

  • squashballs avatar
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    Posted by: squashballs 15/12/2010 at 14:41
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    lol..not bad for you MAJ
  • MissedOpportunity avatar
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    Posted by: MissedOpportunity 15/12/2010 at 17:06
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    Middlemarch:
    So - what is 'dealt with appropriately'?
    Exclusion? Restorative practice? Don't know really. It is a fair though. As long as something is done and it has an impact - that seems appropriate.
  • airy avatar
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    Posted by: airy 15/12/2010 at 17:15
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    weebecka:
    I'm happy to endorse your point Airy.  It is not what I was implying.
    You said that assaults were not the fault of those who committed them. That is excusing their behaviour. You seem to hold two contradictory opinions - which is it?
    weebecka:
    However, what happens when violence occurs?  I'm adding my contribution to this discussion because I feel that there are aspects of my practical experiences in dealing with the police that others may find useful or relevant, such as learning be very careful of what you say to the police, anticipating the in-school issues which will occur as the court case proceeds and so on. 
    And what happens to the staff member who is discouraged from reporting a violent assault to the police and continues to be asked to teach the pupils who assaulted him or her? Concern for vulnerable children and young people is admirable but let's show the same concern for their teachers. You say that you are not implying that assault is part of a teacher's job but you maintain that a serious assault is not something that should always be reported to the police. Why is it not a crime just because it occurs in a classroom?
  • BigFrankEM avatar
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    Posted by: BigFrankEM 15/12/2010 at 18:20
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    Whilst broadly agreeing with the main thrust of the replies from LotF, some aspects are worthy of debate. IMO.

    Lilyofthefield:
      But calling a casual "F*ck off" a verbal assault worthy of Police attention is just to diminish the seriousness of real assault and makes teachers look mincy and pathetic. 

     

    If I understand it, the OP is not posing the problems of a casual "F*ck off" (not that I condone it but, OK I can take some very limited abuse of this sort) but, as I remember repeated such "F*ck off".....s.

    X10 ?

    X100 ?

     

    The OP (I have just looked back) wasn´t on the last line above, nor maybe even the previous one, but many of us and many of the posters here are !

     

    So what is to be done?

    LotF is both realistic and also (dare I say it?) Job´s comfortor when she continues.

     

    Lilyofthefield:
    Persistent flouting of any school rule should result in the eventual exclusion of the child.  Because the government has nowhere to put them (hey, apart from our school!) they they simply made it harder to exclude them.

     and

     

    Lilyofthefield:
    We have had our own dedicated Police Officer at this school for years, and ..... he is as hamstrung by the meagre sanctions available as the teaching staff are.

     

    As for the "sticks and stones" argument, if this is true why is abusive language in a public place an arrestable offence as mentioned previously by Gary?

     

    Going back to the very first year when I started teaching, I remember a colleague who started out with me and others that year arguing "No matter how pressured their lives, none of these difficult kids would dream of walking in front of a speeding bus because they know the consequences."

     
  • Lilyofthefield avatar
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    Posted by: Lilyofthefield 15/12/2010 at 19:39
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    The lack of meaningful consequences is at the bottom of it.

    The lower down the school food chain you go, the less bothered are the kids and their parents about the consequences.  If my kids swore at a teacher, that teacher would have called me.  I would have ensured that my child apologised and I would have punished them as hard as I could.  They knew that.  They would never have believed that I would support them in this matter over a teacher.

    But in our school, there is a lingering distrust and dislike of school-as-authority amongst a significant number of parents and they will always back their child up.  What child wouldn't feel empowered?

    So you go down the sanctions route:  a detention they don't turn up for, phone calls and letters to parents who say they don't hold with detention and it's against the law and our Razor said the teacher always picks on him for nothing so why aren't you doing something about that.  Or a bunch of social workers seen and yoof workers pleading "issues".  A fixed-term exclusion.  So what?  If you get so many you're supposed to be permanently excluded.  I think I've seen that happen twice in ten years, and I've certainly seen more than two staff assaults.

    There is no punishment the kid can't ignore and nowhere else to send them.  I repeat.
  • weebecka avatar
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    Posted by: weebecka 15/12/2010 at 19:42
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    BigFrankEM:
    none of these difficult kids would dream of walking in front of a speeding bus because they know the consequences.
    NO BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE WOULD GET HURT. They usually cut themselves or take drink or drugs instead.
  • weebecka avatar
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    Posted by: weebecka 15/12/2010 at 19:55
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    airy:
    You said that assaults were not the fault of those who committed them
    I didn't say that and have already denied that I said it. Stop misquoting me.
    airy:
    You seem to hold two contradictory opinions
    No I don't, it's possible for two people to be responsible for something.
    airy:
    And what happens to the staff member who is discouraged from reporting a violent assault to the police and continues to be asked to teach the pupils who assaulted him or her?
    I got assaulted again. And I wasn't 'asked' it was a case of do it or go off sick.
    airy:
    you maintain that a serious assault is not something that should always be reported to the police
    II did report serious assault to the police and the police threat of action helped ensure the student and his family accepted an 'opportunity' to move to a referral facility. He never returned to the school. However in the case of the other student there were no constructive consequences - only destructive ones for her and for me, so I regret that action was started. It's useful to be aware of the likely practicalities and outcomes of a report to the police before you decide whether to make one or not. I'm not trying to say how things should or shouldn't be - just to contribute a bit of practical experience. I wish there had been appropriate boundaries and back-up for staff like me so this had never happened.
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