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"Michael Gove: my revolution for culture in classroom" - ravings of a lunatic?

Last post 03/01/11 at 12:33 by seren_dipity, 204 replies
Post started by FolkFan on 28/12/10 at 18:36

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    Posted by: ks3003 29/12/2010 at 12:30
    Joined on 21/08/2010
    Posts 49

    oldandrew:

    Facts are part of knowledge, and knowledge is what we use for thinking. We currently have a crisis in education due to a lack of basic factual knowledge. Kids can't develop higher level maths skills because they can't do their times tables fluently. They can't interpret a text because their vocabulary and fluency at reading are too limited. The idea that we can skip the knowledge part and move straight on to the "thinking" part is what has got us into this mess. 

    Not true - I never learnt the times tables fluently but ended up with a Maths degree anyway.

    I could/can work things out because I understand what multiplication is and can use various methods to get the right answer. 

     

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    Posted by: Mr Leonard 29/12/2010 at 12:39
    Joined on 23/05/2007
    Posts 94

    ks3003:

    oldandrew:

    Facts are part of knowledge, and knowledge is what we use for thinking. We currently have a crisis in education due to a lack of basic factual knowledge. Kids can't develop higher level maths skills because they can't do their times tables fluently. They can't interpret a text because their vocabulary and fluency at reading are too limited. The idea that we can skip the knowledge part and move straight on to the "thinking" part is what has got us into this mess. 

    Not true - I never learnt the times tables fluently but ended up with a Maths degree anyway.

    I could/can work things out because I understand what multiplication is and can use various methods to get the right answer. 

     

    Fine but surely you are at a distinct time disadavantage in everyday situations that require basic multiplication.

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    Posted by: shalteir 29/12/2010 at 13:14
    Joined on 07/02/2009
    Posts 1,064

     I was teaching when the NC, and the whole package that came with the NC, was introduced. What strikes me most is that the NC was sold to the public at the time as the solution to the standards problem, as the means to elevate the UK to first in world rankings. Twenty years ago, if I were to look forward to 2010, I'd expect the UK to be celebrating pre-eminence in world education. Something has gone wrong with the original vision, if the UK is still reporting teaching standards and pupil standards are not good enough. Past governments, not just of one political persuasion, should be taking responsibility, I don't hear politicians taking responsibility for failures. Instead they scapegoat teachers, schools unions or LEAs, anything but government.

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    Posted by: oldandrew 29/12/2010 at 13:33
    Joined on 08/01/2006
    Posts 5,490

    ks3003:
    Not true - I never learnt the times tables fluently but ended up with a Maths degree anyway.
     

    Define fluently. How would you factorise x^2+x-56?

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    Posted by: shalteir 29/12/2010 at 13:51
    Joined on 07/02/2009
    Posts 1,064

     http://www.algebra.com/algebra/homework/quadratic/lessons/Quadratic_Equations.faq.question.64569.html

     

    ?????

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    Posted by: shalteir 29/12/2010 at 14:04
    Joined on 07/02/2009
    Posts 1,064
    Apologies, OldAndrew, that was not what you were getting at.
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    Posted by: voodoo child 29/12/2010 at 14:06
    Joined on 01/09/2006
    Posts 464

    Newsflash!!! All's well with Gove - Simon Hughes has been brought in as his human shield.  So that's all right then! (Won't they soon run out of Lib Dem human shields though?)

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    Posted by: Andy_91 29/12/2010 at 17:58
    Joined on 02/01/2001
    Posts 960

    florian gassmann:
    What can the ordinary citizen do when he or she perceives that a Secretary of State has totally lost his marbles?

     

    Bloody Hell - has he given back the Elgin Marbles now?

    Is there no end to his cultural pluralism?

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    Posted by: spiz 29/12/2010 at 19:05
    Joined on 07/06/2002
    Posts 1,650

    I know a few people who have visited colleges and universities in China.   The common report is that Chinese education is about 90% theory and only 10% practical, despite state of the art facilities for learning.    The curriculum managers out there don't trust the students to work independently or think for themselves - the students learn by rote what the teachers tell them.

    Are these the standards Gove wants to re-establish in England and Wales?

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    Posted by: Fran Carpenter 29/12/2010 at 19:39
    Joined on 11/04/2002
    Posts 199
    spiz:

    I know a few people who have visited colleges and universities in China.   The common report is that Chinese education is about 90% theory and only 10% practical, despite state of the art facilities for learning.    The curriculum managers out there don't trust the students to work independently or think for themselves - the students learn by rote what the teachers tell them.

    Are these the standards Gove wants to re-establish in England and Wales?

    Well, most of our kids don't currently work independently very well, or think for themselves, so what's wrong with Mr Gove's suggestions? Don't kid yourselves that what goes on in our schools now is working everywhere!! Chinese students are generally well educated, knowledgeable, polite and civil, in my experience. Why not aspire to that?
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